"Eating History" Podcast host Zhan Haoyu talks about how to use the "Nine-Gong Ge Thinking Method" to conceive stories

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I never thought that these two things eating delicious food and listening to history could go together so perfectly. Thanks to the Media Literacy Education Foundation for hosting this lecture, and thank you Zhan Haoyu for his wonderful sharing, which not only allowed me to review “[Nine-Panel Thinking Method](https://www.books.com.tw/exep/assp. php/vista/products/0010912219?utm_source=vista&utm_medium=ap-books&utm_content=recommend&utm_campaign=ap-202307)”, it seems to have helped me find new ideas for telling stories.

Zhan Haoyu is the host of the podcast program “Eat History” that specializes in talking about history and food. At the beginning, the reason why he switched from a theater worker to a podcaster was because he said the reason was very simple. In fact, he just wanted to “continue to maintain his creative energy” (https://tw.news.yahoo.com/news/Eating Food and Talking about History Due to Unemployment-”Eating History”-podcast was on the charts-052427168.html).

When talking about the positioning of the podcast “Eat History”, Haoyu laughed and said that all this was a bit of an accident and it could be said to be a pure coincidence. He recalled that when he was applying for a resume when he was unemployed, he once applied for the production team of a food YouTuber. One of the projects he applied for at that time was to provide program planning. Because he likes history, and combined with the custom-made food for the protagonist, he came up with the idea of ​​eating food and talking about history. Although he was not admitted in the end, fate would allow him to find the niche of a podcast program and start his life as a podcaster.

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Podcast is actually a form of sound creation, which is more free than radio in terms of listening method or time. Haoyu pointed out that the program “Eating History” mainly tells historical stories, but it uses food to package them. For example, in the show, he once introduced the story of Cuba Libre, a cocktail, to let everyone understand the relationship between Cuba and the United States.

[Cuba Libre](https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/Cuba Libre_(Cocktail)) is a highball cocktail made from cola, rum and ice. Most recipes also include lime juice.

In addition, Haoyu also told the story of [Bak Kut Teh] (https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/Bak Kut Teh) in the program, including the difference between the Malaysian and Singaporean schools. According to his research, the invention of Bak Kut Teh actually has some connections with the history of Malaysia and Singapore.

Closer to home, Haoyu laughed and said that if he wanted to introduce to you how to tell stories and create content, he was actually not sure about his own skills and methods for making podcasts. Would listeners also be interested? He wasn’t even sure whether he could directly apply these methods.

Because the format of making podcasts may not be suitable for making videos. Therefore, he will share with you how he chose to do a food and history podcast in the first place?

Haoyu shares with you a passage from Steve Jobs, the founder of Apple (https://heartnsoul.pixnet.net/blog/post/35870839), which he delivered at the graduation ceremony of Stanford University in the United States: “You can’t predict these [bits and pieces] of life in advance. It’s all put together. Only when you look back in the future will you understand how these bits and pieces were put together.”

In June 2005, Jobs gave a speech at the graduation ceremony of Stanford University. He reviewed his short college career in detail. At the same time, he also hoped that graduates would be brave enough to pursue their true preferences based on his own personal experience.

After Jobs took a break from school, he went to [audit the typeface art and design course at Reed College](https://tw.news.yahoo.com/Jobs audited the typeface aesthetics-far-reaching influence-050313764.html). Many posters seen on campus are printed with extremely beautiful calligraphy. He became highly interested in this and learned what serif and sans-serif fonts are. He also understood that the different line spacing between different fonts would make good-looking fonts more perfect.

At first glance, learning typeface design did not really help Jobs, but many years later when he started designing the Macintosh computer, it exerted an important influence and ushered in the flourishing era of Apple Aesthetics.

Jobs once said that his attendance at the typeface art design class at Reed College was the main reason that influenced Apple’s later creation of “elegant and minimalist aesthetic standards.”

By CNN

There is no doubt that Jobs’ story has greatly inspired Haoyu and also influenced his method of producing the “Eating History” podcast program.

If you really like podcasts, even if you don’t succeed no matter how long you sit on them, you should be satisfied with the sense of accomplishment.

By [Zhan Haoyu](https://tw.news.yahoo.com/news/Eating food and talking about history because of unemployment-”Eating History”-podcast has been on the trend list-052427168.html)

Returning to the theme of today’s lecture, Haoyu shared with everyone his story-telling method without any secret. He revealed that he used “Jiugongge thinking method” to conceive the theme and plot of the story, and also used this to connect many unknown histories and food.

[](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi16BdzcXngnuccezaAGJeOklH5LmR5DAmcw5YKI7uZ62jzTyf0kJqdwYdkbf3Ooijo6JrM7M-hy3ch-vqufOkiWaAf ywKD8c2DQ23DtsiwARzt-qXNNPCMU7EhCBwhOiQ9P4ftIrDj6EbLR9kVya6RVSf5Ytb8_WCIbCo8 YJPAVUokdpk4Uxl8o8hZgEDy/s1766/CleanShot%202023-07-08%20at%2014.44.51@2x.png) The “Nine-Gong Ge Thinking Method” actually has a long history and is not a new thing. It was first advocated by the Japanese. Its core logic is very simple, which is to draw a nine-square grid on a white paper, and then put your core goal in the middle. After that, think based on this core goal, what goals must be completed first to achieve this core goal?

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For example, if your core goal today is to become healthier, then for this matter, the goals you want to achieve may be to get enough sleep, eat better, keep exercising, or maintain good and healthy relationships, etc. You can write these sub-goals around your core goal, which makes your core goal more visible and allows you to present and think about it in a more concrete way.

Perhaps the most famous case of using the “Nine-Gong Ge Thinking Method” is the well-known “Double Blade” player [Otani Shohei] in the American Major League (https://www.managertoday.com.tw/articles/view/63789). He used this way of thinking from a young age to try to make himself the No. 1 player in baseball in Japan and the United States.

Zhan Haoyu pointed out that the “Nine-Gong Ge Thinking Method” is not only easy to understand, but also easy to use. In fact, it is not enough to just draw this nine-square grid, but you can extend the sub-goals next to it again and turn them into their respective nine-square grids. And these nine-square grid secondary goals can allow you to plan your core goals more completely and clearly.

To put it simply, if our goal is to become healthy, then one of our goals is to get enough sleep. We can pull out the goal of getting enough sleep, and then draw a nine-square grid for it. What are the conditions for getting enough sleep? For example, in order to get enough sleep, you should turn off the lights before going to bed, or don’t do strenuous exercise before going to bed, etc.

If you can make good use of the “nine-square grid thinking method” to generate ideas, you can make your core goals very three-dimensional and intuitive. In other words, it can extend from points and lines all the way to the surface level. So, when you want to achieve your core goals, you will be more motivated!

Zhan Haoyu revealed, how did he learn to tell stories in the first place? In fact, he adopted the reverse method of the “Nine-Gong Grid Thinking Method”, that is, he reversed the order of the “Nine-Gong Grid Thinking Method”…

The formal nine-square grid thinking method is that you must first fill in the core goals in the middle, and then derive other secondary goals. But the reverse method is slightly different. After drawing the nine-square grid, please fill in the eight surrounding grids first: Please think about your life, what things are important to you so far? Among these life experiences, what has had a key impact on you?

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After you have written these things, pick out some of the most important points. After writing it, you can naturally focus on the direction you want to tell the story.

Many people want to tell stories, but have no inspiration and don’t know what to tell? Haoyu suggests that you can try this method in the future, and it may not be difficult to find the direction.

He also reminded everyone: Storytellers should not deliberately pursue traffic, because it is difficult to establish uniqueness by blindly following the trend, and many hot topics are often short-lived. Doing this will make your audience confused and wonder what you are doing? From a marketing perspective, your TA will find it strange.

Therefore, Haoyu recommends that everyone should not blindly pursue hot topics or traffic. Storytellers must start from their own hearts and find a suitable thing for you to tell that you are interested in and passionate about. Only by persisting in this way can you tell this story wonderfully.

I think there is a very important point in telling stories. You should try to think from the perspective of that historical figure.

By Zhan Haoyu

Russian drama master Stanislavsky, who is also the author of “The Actor’s Self-Cultivation”, has a famous saying: “There are no small parts, only small actors.”

This means that no matter how big or small the role is, even if it is a small role, the actor should try his best to play it as if he has received an important role. Those who don’t put their heart into acting because their roles are not important are young actors.

In response to the theme shared today, Haoyu believes that if the words “There are no small roles, only big actors” should be changed into a story concept, it would be: “There is no so-called big story or small story, only whether you tell the story well”!

Some people may think that since we are going to tell a story today, we need to pursue some crazy or bloody effects in an exaggerated way. They mistakenly believe that traffic is boosted in this way. In fact, there is no shortage of people telling such stories. If you tell it more straightforwardly, there will definitely be media or creators more bloodthirsty than you who will rush to tell these stories. However, there are many little things that happen around us that no one knows or shares.

But the scariest part is also here. Maybe because you don’t want to understand or you don’t have time to understand, this story will be slowly lost, and even disappear with the wind over time.

No matter what line of work you are in, or where you come from, I believe that there must be a very small story like this around each of us. But don’t think these stories are small. As long as you dig deep enough, you might be able to find something very interesting… The principles of many things are the same. As long as you dig deep enough and get along with them for a longer time, you will definitely be able to tell interesting stories that make people feel.

In addition, Haoyu also advises everyone: Don’t stop creating just to pursue perfection. Instead, focus on the process of creation. Does it remind you of the shortcomings of your own experience? Then, find ways to make up for it and enjoy the process. For storytellers, the motivation and ability to maintain this kind of conflict stably is also very important.

Sometimes during the creative process, we will constantly delete certain details in order to maintain the rhythm or control the length. This is actually a pity. Haoyu pointed out that those details may be the most important points in constructing the story.

Finally, Haoyu shared a practical case with everyone: He recalled that when he was doing the podcast program, he had found people who liked history but had no interest in food, people who liked food but didn’t like history, or people who liked both or neither to interview. They will give you different perspectives and help you master more storytelling tips and context.

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Further reading

• Golden Horse Award 2022 Best Documentary “Nine Guns” Director Cai Chonglong talks about the value and influence of documentaries
• Director of CNEX Chinese Documentary Proposal Conference Zhang Yulan talks about what documentaries teach us
• Former “Health” magazine editor-in-chief Huang Huiru talks about the writing method of long articles

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